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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:11 am ] |
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I'm building one of those heavy cabinetmakers workbenches. The top is a series of 2"x1.5"x72" maple boards that I will laminate and level. 2 questions for now: 1) I am leaning toward epoxy to glue them up. The theory is that it is strong, non-reactive and will not contribute to warping since it contains no water. Is this the right adhesive choice? 2) Once the bench is constructed, I'd like to protect the top. What finishes, oils, etc. would be best to consider for the maple surface? TIA |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:22 am ] |
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JJ, what will you be using the bench for? |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:38 am ] |
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Don...Mostly planing and jointing plates and glue ups for guitar work but I will also be doing other projects where I need a flat, sturdy surface. It will have 2 large vises and dog holes for clamping and joining. I'm following the plans for the Veritas workbench listed in the Lee Valley catalog. This will be a very heavy bench located in the center of my room with access from all sides. I do a lot of plane work since I have no power equipment and I've realized that the benches I have now move with heavy planing. My other motivation in building this is to learn more advanced woodworking skills. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:07 am ] |
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JJ, I would think that epoxy would create an incredible long lasting joint. System 3 is adhesive and should set up much stronger than the wood itself. I just finished a birch plywood bench with some hardware store bought Zar urethane and it is a GREAT finish. Inexpensive, super hard and easy easy easy. You might want more of a penetrating finshing and I can't help much with that but I am growing really fond of the urethanes and will use them again on my next guitar. Larry |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:27 am ] |
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JJ, epoxy would be a super adhesive in this application except for two things: 1) it's really expensive and you'll use a lot of it and 2) it tends to creep a lot so it might give you fits when gluing up the panels of the top. I think I'd use a urathane glue (Gorilla) as it's waterproof, heat proof and pretty much everything else proof. Belen's rock hard table top varnish. Available at Woodcraft (and I'm sure many other fine retailers). Great stuff and this is pretty much what it's designed for. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:34 am ] |
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What Paul said... |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:03 am ] |
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I've used the titebond urethane with a great deal of success in my minimal use of it. Our local woodcraft guys recommended it over the Gorilla. I'd imagine there's little difference, though. -j. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:03 am ] |
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For a finish I would use turpentine, linseed oil and then a few coats of wax buffed to a nice sheen |
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| Author: | ecklesweb [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:41 am ] |
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I highly recommend just using plain-old yellow glue. I used about 1/2 a gallon of Titebond II on my bench top: 
As to finish, I didn't bother. It's going to need releveling often enough that I don't see the point. That being said, a traditional bench would be oiled. Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year for its lifetime (or yours, anyway). |
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| Author: | ecklesweb [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:45 am ] |
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[QUOTE=JJ Donohue]My other motivation in building this is to learn more advanced woodworking skills.[/QUOTE] Having done some rough carpentry, home repair/improvement, furniture building, and a little guitar building, I'm reasonably confident saying that there isn't a more advanced woodworking skill than lutherie. The tolerances are more demanding, the joinery is more complex and critical, the finishing techniques are more refined, inlay/marquetry is common, and a wider range of woods are used. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:07 am ] |
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This is a very interesting point. When I built my benches (2 hickory benches) I drove myself nuts trying to get the fits that I get with guitars. It's much harder to get a 8' board to fall within thousandths than it is for a 2" piece of purfling. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:17 am ] |
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I have a really old woodworking bench that I brought back to life, built new tail and side vises for; I bet it took longer than building a new one. By the way, the Norwegian name for what I see referred to as a "Scandinavian woodworking bench" by English speakers is "hovelbenk"= planing bench; this it what it is made for, and it is probably the only thing that it's really perfect for. Anyways, I used Danish oil as a finish on it. It offers some protection, the glue drips are easier to remove for instance. The Danish oil, which I believe contains tung oil and some other drying vegetable oils, is a good finish for work benches as is dries hard compared to linseed oil and does not crack or chip like varnishes. I now have so many saw marks, holes and chips in it that the finish is the least of my worries. I'll have to level it again, I guess. Now, where is that jointer plane and those winding sticks <sigh>. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:21 am ] |
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Paul...Thanks for the feedback. Whichever glue I use there's going to be a lot of squirming before the glue sets. As a result, I was planning to dowel pin in 3 places to minimize that headache. As to the polyurethane glue, I've not used it yet but will look into it. As far as my woodworking skills, I only started working with wood when I decided to build guitars. I feel I have sooo much to learn. I am really looking forward to this project and plan to stay with it until I get it the way I want it. Who knows...there may even be a few inlays to give it some zoot and personality! |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:16 am ] |
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Arnt, how would you pronounce that word in English. Hov-el-benk? |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:54 am ] |
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JJ, You have all my support, i'm in the same boat as for learning woodworking and i'm interested in seeing the finished result of your bench. I agree that those veritas benches are awesome, and i will probably build my own in the future, let us know how it goes! 
Serge |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:01 am ] |
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I am with Paul on the perceived difficulty of actually building a guitar - its far tougher IMO to make a 5 or 6 high chest of drawers that is perfectly square and flat. The joinery in guitars is pretty much all lap joints (unless you use a dovetail neck - I dont) - doesnt matter if your top overhangs - a simple flush trim bit takes it all off. How many joints are actually square ?? Not many. I used titebond on my bench - 7 years and counting. |
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| Author: | old man [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:44 am ] |
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To me, the greatest challenge in guitar building is the precision required and the absence of room for error because of the thinness of the material. Making a guitar isn't difficult, but making a great guitar is. Of course, making a dresser isn't difficult either, but making an eye-popping Queen Anne highboy or drop front secretary is difficult. The most challenging project I've done, before guitars, was a 10' diameter hemispherical dome for an observatory. Oh, yeah, I'd use gorilla glue on the bench. Ron |
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:46 am ] |
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Titebond I. Tung Oil. 16 years and counting! |
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| Author: | sfbrown [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:19 pm ] |
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Put me in the Titebond II camp. It works like yellow glue, and holds great. I like Robbie's top finish but I opted for none. I figure that with zero finish, there is zero possibility of contamination. Of course, errant glue sticks better but all things considered, it is an easy (non)finish. 
Oh, don't for get the square holes for the bench dogs! Smartest thing I put in mine. I use them to hold my radius dish. Wow, no shifting at all! |
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| Author: | mikev [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:45 pm ] |
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I just finished a 7'x24"x4" woorkbench made from yellow pine. I planed all the pieces to 1.250 inches and laminated them with Titebond II extend. I really do recommend the extend. It gives you 15 minutes working time. I put a leg vise in it, a planing stop and am about to drill a few holdfast holes. It weight 300+lbs and I can plane all day without it budging. The legs are laminated 5x5"s. Oh yeh, if your gunna plane the top try to orient all the grain in the same direction..if possible. |
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| Author: | ecklesweb [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:23 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=sfbrown]Oh, don't for get the square holes for the bench dogs! [/QUOTE] Round dog holes rule!!! (let the flamewar begin!) Seriously, the debate will go on at least as long as the left tilt/right tilt table saw debate. But, I like round holes better because in my mind they're more versatile - you can use holdfasts as well as bench dogs. They're also easier to install in the location of your choosing because you don't have to cut the holes before you lam up the top...you drill them afterwards. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
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Great feedback! Thanks. Of course, it generates more questions: 1) While running the grain in the same direction seems to make perfect sense for ease of planing the surface, wouldn't alternating the grain create more stability? Intuitively, it would seem that each board would counteract it's neighboring board by preventing movement. Which makes better sense? 2) I'm kinda leaning toward the idea of using a penetrating oil, solvent, beeswax emulsion on the surface and then buffing it out. Would the wax cause any contamination that could transfer to wood intended to be bonded? Of course, no silicone! 3) I like the idea of staining and brushing the legs and stretchers with ... Varnish? or Polyurethane? Pros & Cons? 4) Why square dogs over round dogs?...I was assuming round. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:23 am ] |
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I'm with Ron as for the precision required in everything we build be it a guitar or a workbench. I built a deck for my trailer at the campground, 2 years ago, it took me my whole 2 weeks vacation but it was worth the patience, it looked like a giant piece of furniture when finished. Concerning guitar building, the hardest thing for me is to fight the urge to go fast, the curiosity of the sound, magic surrounding every aspect of the craft is just overwhelming! |
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| Author: | KevinA [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 am ] |
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My vote these days is for round dog holes, particularly when I want to hold a round radius dish. Round dogs will rotate to hold the round form, square ones won't. My current bench has square holes. so I had to put square bases on my radius dishes to hold them. Kevin |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:18 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Arnt, how would you pronounce that word in English. Hov-el-benk?[/QUOTE] Just like you read it, with the letter "o" pronounced like the "i" in bird. By the way, we have most of our plane names from German. Norwegian for plane is "hovel", German is "Hobel". Jointer plane in German is "Rauhbank", Norwegian "rubank"; rabbet plane in German "Simshobel", Norwegian "simshovel", I could go on, but I'll spare you... You get the idea. 
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